danaids and dircae

Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. As far as you are concerned, I've gone beyond the childish, I've transmuted it and saved it, by embodying it in myth. 2) Christiani/oi designated people as adherents or partisans of Christ, and not the fictive sons/daughters of someone. Mirbt, n.33. The entirety of his focus in condemning Nero concentrates on the preaching of Peter and Paul at Rome and the effects of their ideas in the city. . So much for the late legend of Peter being crucified, let alone crucified upside down. The presumed authenticity of Tacitus passage (Annals 15:44) has long been a key plank in the case for the existence of an historical Jesus, within the long but lately resurgent question (now popularly referred to as Jesus mythicism) as to whether Jesus actually existed or is a fictional/allegorical character. We are therefore strongly disposed to suspect that the passage (Annals, xv, 44) was transferred from Sulpicius to the text of Tacitus by the hand of a monastic copyist or forger, for the greater glory of God and in order to strengthen the truth of the Christian tradition by a pagan witness.[67]. The climax of the story starts here. Christian Interpolation in Josephus Antiquitates Judaicae (c. 94 C.E.). Shaws article is valuable for casting such doubt on a supposedly key Christian martyr tradition, but his particular case is seriously flawed. My books, and those I have published for others, consistently maintain 4-star and better ratings despite the occasional 1- and 2-star ratings from people angry about my kicking over sacred cows. The Roman elites, meanwhile, came to remember Nero as a malicious villain. In other versions of the myth, Danaus himself united Hypermnestra and Lynceus instead.[2]. In any case, Bowersocks unease is well founded. In Romans 16, couples, single people, and women are key to missionary work; in 1Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas we see a great concern regarding the social order of women and the household. Mair) (Greek poet C3rd B.C.) return to rescue his nation/people &c. This persists even in the bizarre sci-fi cult-fiction of the cryogenic Adolf in Antarctica. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. No specifically identifiable author can be fixed for these letters. To read more about Neil, see our. I will attempt to outline some of the points I found of particular interest in his article. . Slingerland proceeds to take on the notorious crux in Suet. And to those who were dying mockeries were added. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.) : Welcome to the season where the only song we sing for fourweeks isO Come, O Come, Emmanuel! It was a crime that both people and gods would punish. He indulged in all the trappings of his day, including the pastime of watching gladiatorial combat and games where criminals were tortured or eaten alive by wild animals. Yet not only do Christian commentators not breathe a word of such a myth (and that includes prime martyrologists like Tertullian and the historian Eusebius) until the beginning of the 400s, some of their documents actually say things which make it impossible that they could have been aware of or subscribed to such a myth, as in the Acts of Paul, and the Acts of Peter. The writer concludes: Thereafter the brethren kept together with one accord, rejoicing and exulting in the Lord. No Tacitean horror spectacle there. Another contemporary, Pliny, shared the same negative view of Christians. So, please continue to delve deeply and share this intellectual sustenance with your grateful readers. . doi:10.1017/S0028688517000352. . It is, however, very doubtful, in view of the silence of the other Christian authors who used Tacitus, if the manuscript of Tacitus which Sulpicius used contained the passage in question. Slingerland, Howard Dixon (1997). I think I was the first to present a comprehensive case (587-630) for the whole Neronian persecution as a consequence of the Great Fire, let alone the idea of any Christian responsibility for it, as being a later myth. can be read possibly as Philinna according to Mauricius Schmidt in his annotations of Hyginus. His views are at bottom mere apologetics, anyway as you yourself comment with respect to point 2. "Neil, for what it is worth it is obvious to me that if you had earlier in life tracked into a graduate program at one of the worlds leading research universities you would be one of the worlds formidable ones. Danaus' brother Aegyptus had fifty children as well; in his case, all of them were male. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. This is quite improbable. Through jealousy women were made to appear as Danaids and Dircae, suffering terrible and unholy indignities; they finished the race of faith unshaken and received a noble reward, weak in the body though they were. Even in the New Testament, we are told that at the judgment those who patiently to do good will be rewarded in eternal life (Rom. As mentioned above, Tacituss applying the term of Christian to the time of the 60s was another anachronism. . It is most likely that Tacitus and Pliny exchanged information on these Christians who, as Pliny records, appeared to bebecoming a noticeable social nuisance. And for him the issue was settled and there is no record that he ever persecuted the Christians again. ", "Vridar is consistently thought-provoking, well-informed, and asking the right questions. But the following passage speaks of Paul: Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. The gods Athena and Hermes purified them at the command of Zeus. Nouvelles Considerations, pp. The Danaids - or the Danaides; also called Belides after their grandfather - were the fifty daughters of Danaus, one of the two twin sons of king Belus of Egypt and the Naiad Anchinoe. | Sitemap |. The more I read your stuff (and I still do, of course), the more I realize how much we all owe you. ", "Fantastic. Given the surprisingly widespread acceptance of the great significance ofthis axial event in Christian history, the thinness of the evidence on all aspects of it is quite striking. And Juno was propitiated by Roman matrons, first on the Capitol and then at the nearby seashore from which water was drawn and sprinkled on the temple and the image of the goddess. We all know the problem with this promise. Per Porter, Stanley E.; Pearson, Brook W.R. (2000). And it will not do to save the Christian hypothesis by postulating Suetonius ignorance. Deliberately to overlook and to ignore such a parallel with an earlier known tyrant whom Lactantius himself accepts persecuted Christians, and thereby to miss the opportunity to tie together the first and the last of the persecutors, is almost inexplicable unless he was unaware of the connection or had discounted it for some reason. Ill try to offer something more substantial than 'Thank you' in response at some point, but I didnt want to wait . * Poggio Bracciolini served under four successive popes (14041415); first as scriptor (writer of official documents), soon moving up to abbreviator, then scriptor penitentiarius, and scriptor apostolicus. ISBN 1-905048-0-68. 51:16-17; Ezek. Envy has alienated wives from their husbands, and changed that saying of our father Adam, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. Envy and strife have overthrown great cities and rooted up mighty nations. The trope of the jealous spouse delating his wife to Roman authorities in the city of Rome is also found in the writings of Justin Martyr who was probably writing in the mid-second century. Finally, at least for chapter 7, I found this statement interesting: Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. This video claims that the Christians took blame for the fire themselves (whether they did or not). The author writes that there was a "great multitude furnished us with a most excellent example." He names two women (Danaids and Dircae) who were "persecuted after they had suffered terrible and unspeakable torments." (Chapter 7) He "admonishes" them, but doesn't offer any sort of command. : Then notice Tacitus explaining to his readers that these Christians were just as people in his own day thought of them the harbingers of a new and degraded form of superstitio. He says: Evidently two developments had taken place prior to his writing the Annales: Even if it was for guilty persons who deserved to suffer extreme and exemplary public punishments, there arose a feeling of pity because it was not for the public good but to satisfy one mans savagery that they were being liquidated. The Law of Moses could not deliver from sin or give the power to overcome it, but "what the Law could not do, God did by sending his Son" (Rom. I reserve all rights, but I give permission to use this page in Bible studies or other FREE ways. God has always forgiven those who repent (Ps. He lamented the lack of any known precedents for how this group ought to be treated. Some accounts tell that their punishment in Tartarus was being forced to carry a jug to fill a bathtub (pithos) without a bottom (or with a leak) to wash their sins off. I have just sent this letter to the New York Review of books. Up until the time of Tacitus this expression had been used of an ethnic group to refer to the Jews. The lack of connection is all the more striking since Lactantius was well aware of the tradition that Nero was a persecutor of Christians and of the rumours that Nero was going to return to earth, in some form, to renew the persecution. The Greek text in 6.2 is not without its complications, but it is entirely possible that the reference to the Danaids, alluding to how the daughters of Danas were given as prizes to the winners of a race, may be an indication of how some Christian women endured public rape before their executions. There were no crucifixions, for example. I do need to touch on the two women Clement lists, "the Danaids and Dircae." According to the footnote in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, they are either two unknown women or the phrase was possible added later. The following is from a review of H. Dixon Slingerlands Claudian Policymaking and the Early Imperial Repression of Judaism at Rome reviewed by Erich S. Gruen, University of California, Berkeley, http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1998/98.7.02.html. A lot was cast among the sons of Aegyptus to decide which of the Danaids each should marry except for those daughters born to Memphis who were joined by their namesakes, the sons of Tyria. According to Hippostratus, Danaus had all these progeny begotten by a single woman, Europa, the daughter of Nilus.[4]. They thought this might serve their purpose. 5-6 "The Martyrdom of St. Paul and Condemnation of St. Peter" by Giovani Caraglio | Privacy Policy The first part of the article explores the context in which these designations appear. However, this torture would never stop because the basin had holes all over it and water would run out. DIRKE (Dirce) was the Naiad-nymph of the spring of Dirke near Thebes in Boiotia (central Greece). Your voice is unique. Through envy, those women, the Danaids and Dircae, being persecuted, after they had suffered terrible and unspeakable torments, finished the course of their faith with stedfastness, and though weak in body, received a noble reward. Through envy, those women, the Danaids 32 32 Some suppose these to have been the names of two eminent female martyrs under Nero; others regard the clause as an interpolation. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Not by any human resources, not by the benefactions of the emperor, and not by any placating of the gods did the sinister rumour fade by which it was believed that the fire had been ordered. The story of Danaides begins with the rivalry between the twin sons of Belus, the king of Egypt. Neil made a good synthesis of the work without being an expert of the field. DID TACITUS WRITE OF A NERONIAN PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS? This is ingenious but highly speculative, as Slingerland himself concedes. In the Metamorphoses, [1] Ovid refers to them as the Belides after their grandfather Belus. Dirce Amphion and Zethus subject Dirce to the bull (from the House of the Vettii, Pompeii) Dirce ( / drsi /; Ancient Greek: , pronounced [drk], modern Greek [irci], meaning "double" or "cleft") was a queen of Thebes as the wife of Lycus in Greek mythology . Slingerland reaches a proper and salutary conclusion: the burden of proof rests with those who wish to identify Chrestus with Christ, not those who distinguish them (pp 169-217). It is noteworthy that Poggio Bracciolini* seems by some lucky chance to have discovered and read this manuscript (work quoted, p. 225). They were to marry the 50 sons of Danaus' twin brother Aegyptus, a mythical king of Egypt. Howbeit, one day her bonds were loosed of themselves, and unknown to her keepers she came to her sons cottage, begging that they would take her in. To these men who spent their lives in the practice of holiness, there is to be added a great multitude of the elect, who, having through envy endured many indignities and tortures, furnished us with a most excellent example. Further, Tacituss friend Pliny also described Christians in the same terms (the same words), seeing them as a plague spreading throughout the countryside of his province. It is worth noting that Tacitus Annals 15 derives from a single manuscript, found in the derives from a single manuscript found in a monastery at Monte Cassino in the 13 or 14th century, that also found its way into the hands of Poggio Bracciolini. The myth of Danaides is the story of fifty women who commit a horrible wrongdoing: guided by their father, they all kill their husbands on their wedding night! Therefore, unless one simply presumes, in a complete void of supporting data, that the words in the pseudo-Clement must have some relationship to the fire in 64 C.E., there is nothing in the text that would lead any reasonably critical reader to connect the two events. Only one of the girls, Hypermnestra, did not commit this horrible crime. Do you have a question about Greece and the Greek islands? Around the year 95 AD, a letter was written by the Church of Rome to the Church at Corinth that is attributed to Saint Clement. (A white Muslim convert I knew well in Norwich once said to me, We dont make your distinction between fact and fiction!). Notify me of follow-up comments by email. What is missing in the punishments described, however, is anything suggesting a Christian association. For example, when Tacitus says that there arose a distaste towards Nero for his executions because they were perceived to be a concession to the emperors bestiality and not a contribution to the. Danaus soon understood the plan of his brother and was not willing to surrender his beautiful daughters to his nasty nephews. ", "For an excellent example of generally high-quality scholarship by someone who isnt a biblical studies professor, see Neil Godfreys work posted on the website vridar.org. Of course, we can conclude that we all do. These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. Where to stay? 3 (trans. The first part of the article explores the context in which these designations appear. Scholars Press. It seems as if official science is here again, as in so many other cases, under the dominion of a long-continued suggestion, in taking the narrative of Tacitus to be genuine without further examination. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Prof. Shaws case undermining the historicity of the Tacitus account and its supposed witness to Jesus is an important one, but it could have been much more conclusive and also more supportive to Jesus as myth. A DIFFERENT VIEW OF CLEMENS ROMANUS A DIFFERENT VIEW OF CLEMENS ROMANUS WILHELMHOOIJBERGH, A. E. 1975-07-01 00:00:00 While the writer was studying the first epistle of Clement to the Corinthians with a view to getting a clearer idea as to the conception of sin among the Apostolic Fathers some questions arose. Other references not currently quoted here: Euripides Bacchae 519, Euripides Heracles 27, Propertius 3.16.13. What seems to make the idea so compelling and impossible to dismiss is that it is based on a high quality historical source of apparently unimpeachable fidelity, the, Not by any human resources, not by the benefactions of the emperor, and not by any placating of the gods did. However, Shaw stresses the importance of recognising the passage is the only source for the involvement of Christians with the fire and their persecution in its aftermath.. I love this passage. ", Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 7 (trans. Its an interesting hypothesis. 67 In his De lAuthenticity des Histoires et des Annales de Tacite, Hochart points out that, whereas the Life of St. Martin and the Dialogues of Sulpicius were found in many libraries, there was only one manuscript of Sulpicius Severuss Chronicle, probably of the eleventh century, which is now in the Vatican. 33:11]; adding, moreover, this gracious declaration, 'Repent, O house of Israel, of your iniquity'" [Ezek. Nonetheless, the Bible reports him as a "preacher of righteousness" (2 Pet. The infants were exposed, but a neatherd found and reared them, and he called the one Zethos (Zethus) and the other Amphion . Lynceus killed Danaus as revenge for the death of his brothers and he and Hypermnestra started the Danaid Dynasty of rulers in Argos. At first (only) those persons who confessed were arrested, but then because they were pointed out (denounced) by those (i.e. This may be a new way of thinking for a lot of you. The trope of the jealous spouse delating his wife to Roman authorities inthe city of Rome is also found in the writings of Justin Martyr who was probably writing in the mid-second century. . Previous myth: Idas and Marpessa | Next myth: The tragic myth of Niobe. They had been denounced as Christians by their jealous husbands. Given the surprisingly widespread acceptance of the great significance ofthis axial event in Christian history, the thinness of the evidence on all aspects of it is quite striking. Journal of Greco-Roman Christianity and Judaism (JGRChJ). ", "Thanks for your very elaborate review! This chapter just gives more examples of martyrdom and persecution and points out the basis of persecution is envy. "Desiring that all his beloved should be partakers of repentance ". This was not a large crowd! The two narrative lines look too similar to be independent of one another. Hyginus' list[5] is partially corrupt and some of the names are nearly illegible. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) : Shaw argues that the famous story of Nero burning and in other ways torturing Christians as punishment for the Great Fire of Rome in 64 C.E. For how could Christians not have known and embraced such a prime example of their experiences of martyrdom, given their intense focus and fascination on their sufferings for the faith? Overlooked or downplayed in the longstanding debate over the Tacitus passage has been the stark fact that no Christian commentator for over three centuries ever refers to a general anti-Christian pogrom by Nero (beyond the legendary executions of Peter and Paul, which are never linked to the fire). A shepherd who is a father figure to the boys after helping to raise them convinces them of the truth that Antiope is their real mother. The paucity and weakness of the data, however, have not prevented acceptance of the historicity of this first persecution as an undisputed fact. He cites Richard Carriers 2014 article,The prospect of a Christian interpolation in Tacitus, Annals15.44, in VigiliaeChristianae 68, 26483 as a recent example and source for many of the earlier studies. 142-72. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Witnesses_to_the_Historicity_of_Jesus/Part_2/Section_2. The people of Argos took this as a sign and chose Danaus as their king. The story goes that Antiope was ill-treated by this Dirke, and therefore the children of Antiope put Dirke to death. The myth says that, when they died, they Danaides were forced to a torment for eternity. Attached to the account of Neros atrocities against the Christians is an explanation of the derivation of their name, making reference to a man who had suffered the extreme penalty at the hands of Pontius Pilate. The myth of Danaides is the story of fifty women who commit a horrible wrongdoing: guided by their father, they all kill their husbands on their wedding night! The Roman church needs reminding, too. According to the footnote in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, they are either two unknown women or the phrase was possible added later. Christians were linked to those who were punished after the Great Fire.. But in fact all I do, or you do, is to fish among the childish memories. It is doing God's will that matters, not numbers. For Aegyptus, these fifty marriages appeared as an easy route to acquire the properties of Danaus. Moreover, Shaw ignores the effect of certain writings by Christians later than Tacitus who not only show ignorance, they present a picture which has to rule out any Neronian pogrom. ", Nancy Fraser- June 2019 (personal email), "Many thanks for this post, and for the quality of your blog. ISMENOS (Callimachus Hymn to Delos, Nonnus Dionysiaca 44.10), Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3. Danaus was angered that his daughter refused to do as he ordered and took her to the Argives courts. Good job. Even given that the surviving part of the Histories under consideration was setting up the subsequent war and was a set-apart programmatic ethnography of the Jews in Judaea, two things are striking. The names of the Danades was complete but with new entries and some alteration in the spellings. Later sources such as the writing of Sulpicius Severus are useless for our enquiry because they all depend on Tacitus. Belus was believed to be a descendant of Io, a princess of Argos who lived most of her life in Egypt. ", Earl Doherty, November 2013 (personal email), "Note that I do not use the term amateur pejoratively. Think about thismany apologists are claiming the disciples and early followers were killed for their belief, and the Bishop of Rome, in either 65 or 95 CE, could only come up with Peter, Paul, Danaids and Dircae. 20:28). . 3 (trans. Cassius Dio(ca 155-235 C.E.) The purpose of the current article is to address a question to which scholars devoted considerable thought: the identity of the Christian women whom Clement of Rome called "Danads" and "Dircae" in his "First Epistle to the Corinthians". Ec., II, 25. The absence is doubly striking since it was precisely a fire at Nicomedia (two of them, in fact) that caused Galerius and Diocletian to turn on the Christians in the Great Persecution of 303 C.E. In Greek mythology, the Danades (/dne.diz/; Greek: ), also Danaides or Danaids, were the fifty daughters of Danaus. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I refer to your site frequently as yet more names and publications pop up requiring an academic critique and helpful recommendations for book purchases. 1) Acts 11:26 gives a historical kernel and is not anachronistic. This made the Christians infamous throughout Rome where they hadnt been known of before. See back issues. It is hard to believe that Lactantius was wholly unaware of Tacitus. Dionysos afterwards transformed her into the spring for she had been a devoted follower of the god. (As usual, bolded font and formatting are my own.). The few remnants of houses in the other seven were reduced to stripped and half-burned ruins. It is a great reminder for us today that if we are not repenting, we are not going to be among his beloved. All references to "writings from the apostles' churches" or "early Christian writings" on this site can be read at EarlyChristianWritings.com or Christian Classic Ethereal Library, as well as other web sites. I dont always agree with them, but I respect their work. His preaching of repentance only reached his wife, his sons, and his daughters-in-law. Names with () symbol means corrupted entries but annotations from various editors were provided to rationalize their possible names. . Journal of Roman Studies, 105, pp 73-100 doi:10.1017/S0075435815000982. 3) 1 Clement is authentic therefore confirms the Pauls death under Nero. In Jewish apocalyptic mythology Nero was depicted as a bestial figure, no doubt because the war that ended with the destruction of the Temple was commenced under his reign. This excerpt from the Letter of Clement, written around 95 AD, is important historical evidence of the martyrdom of Peter and Paul in Rome after Pauls journey to Spain. Its always gratifying when a reader zeroes in on exactly those aspects I thought were most interesting and most central to my argument. Paul says that he went throughout the world preaching that the Gentiles should repent and turn to God, doing works suitable for repentance" (Acts 26:20). All Rights Reserved. happen to be some of the most astute and well-read amateurs you can read on the internet on the subject of biblical historicity. ", "Neil Godfrey and Tim Widowfield, who both write at Vridar . 6:14). In Greek mythology, the Danades ( / dne.diz /; Greek: ), also Danaides or Danaids, were the fifty daughters of Danaus. writes eloquently about the Great Fire but whispers not a word about Christians in connection with it. I also have a rough draft of what will be the Rebuilding the Foundations book. I do need to touch on the two women Clement lists, "the Danaids and Dircae." And then the women who had husbands celebrated ritual banquets and nightly vigils. The gaps are striking lacunae in the knowledge of a senator from Italy, frequently resident in or near the imperial capital, who was well informed on these matters, And this evidence, focusing its special emphasis on the Christians and the execution of their leader under Pontius Pilatus in the reign of Tiberius, appears to have come to his attention after he wrote the, Despite the historians different agenda in the. The Neronian persecution first appears full-blown in Sulpicius Severus, a Christian historian writing around 400 CE. . hero concept in European and Jewish mythology, and his (apocalyptic?) A fuller account is then given in the Chronicle of Sulpicius Severus (died 403 A.D.), but it is mixed with the most transparent Christian legends, such as the story of the death of Simon Magus, the bishopric and sojourn of Peter at Rome, etc. Her waters were sacred to the god Dionysos. I really should have included chapter 6 with chapters 3-5 because it is just a continuation. The late tales of the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul appear to have been expressions of what second century Christians wanted to believe. "We are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us.". ", "Thanks for this detailed interaction! To get rid of the rumour, Nero found and provided the defendants, and he afflicted with the most refined punishments those persons whom, hated for their shameful acts, the common people were accustomed to call Chrestiani. hmm no. ", "I think you have a high quality blog that provides a positive public service by discussing academic topics within a wider audience. Suetonius makes no connection here with the Fire. to remind ourselves.". A third list was provided by the English antiquarian, Henry Ellis which was derived from Hyginus. lol) MY VIEWPOINT ON RACISM IS, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. In fact, Godfrey is extremely well read and his librarian skills have brought many important academic works to my attention. The connections were such that Tacitus had at his disposal, in either written or oral sources, what he believed to be credible and compelling grounds to accept the stories that linked the Christians, Nero, and the fire at Rome as elements of a true narrative. This oversight has been corrected. To these men who spent their lives in the practice of holiness, there is to be added a great multitude of the elect, who, having through envy endured many indignities and tortures, furnished. The fears and loathing were all set in the late first and early second century among these literary elite. Indeed, the degree of certainty in the Neronian persecution stands in almost inverse proportion to the quality and quantity of the data. In almost every history of the early Christian Church, the event is marked as a dramatic turning point in the relations between Christians and the imperial government. The forty-nine brides who killed their husband were punished for their crime. Evidently two developments had taken place prior to his writing the Annales: These developments were arbitrary, matters of choice, and not inevitable. She felt pity for her husband, Lynceus, and spared his life. The purpose of the current article is to address a question to which scholars devoted considerable thought: the identity of the Christian women whom Clement of Rome called Danads and Dircae in his First Epistle to the Corinthians. The name of Christian was not applied so early as the identifier of this Jewish sect. Neros spectacular executions of large numbers of Christians in the aftermath of the fire that raged through the city of Rome in July of 64 is commonly regarded as a foundational event in the history of Christian martyrdom. This great massacre was unbelievable, even for the bloody ancient Greek myths. We need not recognise all Hocharts arguments as equally sound, yet we must admit that in their entirety and agreement they are worthy of consideration, and are well calculated to disturb the ingenuous belief in the authenticity of the passage of Tacitus. 6:7-9). ", "Neil, this is actually rather useful. The absence is doubly striking since it was precisely a fire at Nicomedia (two of them, in fact) that caused Galerius and Diocletian to turn on the Christians in the Great Persecution of 303 C.E. As such refusals could provoke violent reactions from their pagan husbands (including sexual abuse), Clement metaphorically called these Christian women Dircae, the bull being a symbol of unchained debauchery. Nero had somehow come to be connected with the Christians; The myth says that Danaus had fifty daughters, known as the Danaides, from four different women, while Aegyptus had fifty sons. RebuildingtheFoundations.org does not receive any personally identifiable information from the search bar below. Envy has alienated wives from their husbands, and changed that saying of our father Adam, "This is now bone of my . In a footnote Holmes explains the reference to Danaids and Dircae: "[I]n ancient mythology the daughters of Danaus were given as prizes to the winners of a race; thus it is likely that this is a reference to Christian women being raped prior to being martyred. Through envy, those women, the Danaids and Dirc, being persecuted, after they had suffered terrible and unspeakable torments, finished the course of their faith with stedfastness, and though weak in body, received a noble reward. ", "Ive even been cited by atheists with approval (which I really dont know how to take, so thanks, I think, but Im not sure,Vrider(even though I feel like I need to take a shower now)). Christians were known by the label Christian. Her waters were sacred to the god Dionysos. "Dirke (Dirce) danced, spouting her whirling waters along with her father Ismenos (Ismenus).". It is very unlikely that in 50s and 50sC.E. ", Mary Booker, February 2020 (personal email), "Very good. Now turn to the Book of Revelation, and we find that the Nero-like figure who is coming to destroy and kill on a cosmic scale is none other than Christ. I dont know if they will print it, because it relates to a secondary subject within the review in question. They first made a stop in Rhodes, where they founded Lindos town and built a temple to goddess Athena Lindia. As such, he functioned as a personal attendant (amanuensis) of the Pope, writing letters at his behest and dictation, with no formal registration of the briefs, but merely preserving copies., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poggio_Bracciolini. When the people of Argos were about to choose their king, a wolf entered the city and tore a bull into pieces. Therefore it is likely that Tacitus attests the persecution of the Chrestien Jews noted by Suetonius, given that most classical scholars do not identify Chrestus with Christ. [26] It can be observed that the names Armoaste and Danaes (Danais), was an addition to complete the list while Scea (Scaea) and Autonomes (Automate) which was obviously borrowed from Apollodorus' accounts were also added. The third is the special interest of the Roman Church in the death of the two chief apostles, Peter and Paul, at Rome. Several other martyrs. Thus Shaws contention, as Bowersock puts it, that Tacituss version of the fire derives from a fiction, Christian or otherwise, that was devised and disseminated at some point between 64 and the time when he was writing, more than five decades later, fails to take into account the silence of three long centuries (including in all Roman historians as well). 6:3 Jealousy hath estranged wives from their husbands and changed the saying of our father Adam, This now is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. . Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. He lists Peter, Paul andDanaids and Dircae. Tacitus composed this passage approximately at the end of the second decade of the second century, perhaps assembling notes and other research earlier in the years after 110 C.E. Whether it happened by chance or by a malicious act of the emperor is uncertain. Thus was he removed from the world. Many points in the passage have been closely debated, but as a whole does it reflect reliable history? You can download the paper by clicking the button above. He certainly knew of the Great Fire. The daughters were ordered by their father to kill their husbands on the first night of their weddings and this they all did with the exception of one, Hypermnestra, who spared her husband Lynceus because he respected her desire to remain a virgin. And more? Often enough punishments that in some way mimicked the crime were imposed. I once attempted to engage him in a discussion on Acts but was rebuffed as if I was a tool of Satan out to destroy Christianity because I questioned his assumptions even though I did so from the perspective of another relatively conservative scholar. Finally a clever forger (Poggio?) To begin with, there is no evidence that Christians were crucified as a penalty for their faith. : Pausanias, Description of Greece 9. When her time was approaching, by the will of Jove [Zeus] she escaped from her chains to Mount Cithaeron, and when birth was imminent and she dsought for a place to bear her child, pain compelled her to give birth at the very crossroads. Not available publicly on our website or anywhere else exclusively for our confirmed subscribers! The Jews from Jerusalem marveled at the precious gift given to the Gentiles, Cornelius being the first, by saying, "So God has granted repentance to life to the Gentiles as well" (Acts 11:18). ", Nonnus, Dionysiaca 44. But how could the legend arise that Nero was the first to persecute the Christians? 64 (2): 231242. Then the author of the letters of Seneca to Paul enlarged the legend in its primitive form, brought it into agreement with the ideas of this time, and gave it a political turn. Danaus agreed to the marriage of his daughters only after Aegyptus came to Argos with his fifty sons in order to protect the local population, the Argives, from any battles. Ive been watching PBS Secrets of the Dead: The Nero Files. Theoi Project Copyright 2000 - 2017 Aaron J. Atsma, Netherlands & New Zealand, (Callimachus Hymn to Delos, Nonnus Dionysiaca 44.10). The Christians were expecting the end of the world by fire and they thought this might be it. Tacitus himself was well aware of these developments. Translation. Danaus built a ship with fifty oars and fled to Greece with his fifty daughters. Note what Arthur Drews said in The Roman Witneses; Tacitus in The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus:, Chicago, The Open Court Publishing Co. (c1912) , Finally, there is the complete silence of profane writers and the vagueness of the Christian writers on the matter; the latter only gradually come to make a definite statement of a general persecution of the Christians under Nero, whereas at first they make Nero put to death only Peter and Paul. Top Danaides And Dircae Quotes Anyone interested in becoming a professional umpire and becoming eligible to work in the minor leagues must attend one of the two umpire schools sanctioned by Major League Baseball. 18:20-30). I shall not attempt to suggest why Jews or Christians might have thought badly of this imperial Apollo, especially as in currently predominant fashion the former could never have done wrong and the latter can never do right; and trust also that this doesnt provoke a tedious academic Armageddon over the real identity of 666. The intelligent Aegyptus wanted to get his sons married to the Danaides. In 1910,[41] the Hungarian poet Mihly Babits published his poem The Danaids, translated into English by Peter Zollman[42] and Istvn Ttfalusi.[43]. "The grace of repentance" brought by the blood of Christ changes all that. This cannot be true because of the many warnings of judgment for Christians (e.g., Gal. Dirke was probably the same as the nymphe Derketis. It was a crime that both people and gods would punish. The entirety of his focus in condemning Nero concentrates on the preaching of Peter and Paul at Rome and the effects of their ideas in the city. And this evidence, focusing its special emphasis on the Christians and the execution of their leader under Pontius Pilatus in the reign of Tiberius, appears to have come to his attention after he wrote the Histories. The most interesting fact about these brothers is their progeny. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience. ", "I have found your website really valuable as an interpretive filter for Biblical scholarship, especially the origins of Christianity and historicity of Jesus issue. In his review of books relating to Roman history, Inside the Emperors Clothes (Dec. 17), G. W. Bowersock makes mention of the recent article by Prof. Brent Shaw (The Myth of the Neronian Persecution) who calls into question the historical actuality of the tradition presented by Tacitus about a vast and cruel slaughter of Christians by the emperor Nero, accused of being responsible for the Great Fire in Rome in 64 CE. When Belus died, he ordered Danaus king of Libya and Aegyptus, king of Arabia. Did the following really happen? In the Gospel of John there was a prophecy that Peter would meet an undesirable fate and it seemed appropriate that he should die by crucifixion as hadJesus. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) . Not just in reference to a Tacitus account of such an event, but in any discussion of the tradition of martyrdom in their own history, something which Christian writers were continually fixated upon, from Clement to Tertullian to Eusebius. can be read as Myrmydone as cited in Hyginus, can be read possibly as Cleodora (Mauricius Schmidt) or simply. But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes. At the time, the lethal superstitio was repressed, but it burst out again not only throughout Judaea, the origin of this evil (sickness), but through the City (of Rome) to which everything that is savage and shameful flows from all directions and is actually celebrated. Christian Dirce by Henryk Siemiradzki (National Museum, Warsaw) shows the punishment of a Roman woman who had converted to Christianity. Best, Emanuel", "These reviews of yours are so bloody weird! ), Note what Arthur Drews said about the relationship of the Sulpicius Severus passage (Chronicle 2.29.1-4a) and the Tacitus passage (Annals 15.44) , We are therefore strongly disposed to suspect that the passage (Annals, xv, 44) was transferred from Sulpicius to the text of Tacitus by the hand of a monastic copyist or forger, for the greater glory of God and in order to strengthen the truth of the Christian tradition by a pagan witness.[67]. Crossans Jesus and the Violence of Scripture (SPCK 2015), a passage re Nero, not because I support either of these writers in their views of HJ but because it rang a bell regarding the transmission of the (divine?) Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science. . https://www.rebuildingthefoundations.org/faith-and-works-story.html. As a member of a higher social class, he received an excellent education and was trained as a lawyer. Lactantius wrote accounts of the wrongful persecutions of Christians by Roman rulers yet he omits any mention of a fire in the time of Nero. Christians and Jews by the Fourth Century. How much further than that you can go has never been defined by law. Before the wedding, he presented each of his daughters a dagger and instructed them to kill their husbands in their wedding night. Just to count the grand houses, the apartment blocks, and the temples that had been destroyed would be very difficult. 1 Clem. As Slingerland points out, more fully than any predecessor, the name appears with reasonable frequency in the epigraphic evidence, encompassing persons of freedman or free born status, some of lowly origin, some of relatively prominent station. Danaus ruled Argos for many years and was leading a quiet life till one day a foreign ship came. They should carry jugs of water and fill a basin. Several minor female characters, mentioned in various accounts unrelated to the main myth of Danaus and the Danades, are also referred to as daughters of Danaus. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. (Later still Jewish mythology concocted scenarios where Nero converted to Judaism and kept divine vengeance at bay.) Chapter 6: Envy (Continued) This chapter just gives more examples of martyrdom and persecution and points out the basis of persecution is envy. (Keeping it brief this time really? [Shaw in fact introduces him as Pseudo-Clement.] The problems here are almost overwhelming. (MSG, 20:207.) You can return Home, go to the index of commentaries, or go to my categorized index of artices. can be read possibly as Phileas (Phileam) according to Mauricius Schmidt in his annotations of Hyginus, Last edited on 27 December 2022, at 03:05, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Holinshed's Chronicles of England, Scotland, and Ireland, "Interleaved Greek and English text (translation by Gillian Newing)". Wilsons TLS (11 December) review of J.D. Vridar: Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science (http://vridar.org/) by Neil Godfrey", -- Klaas Spronk, - Bibliotheca Orientalis LXXI, 3/4 (2014). ", "Neil, Youve done a clean job in your posting on Jesus the Healer. Parts came from written records about the fire, and oral recollections; others came from contemporary cognizance of imperial administrators about such an identifiable and threatening group, and still others were further contemporary sources that linked the Christians with Nero. Dirce who treats Antiope cruelly throughout her life, instructs the twins to kill their mother. Yet a man in Plinys position could not have failed to have known that Christians had been condemned to death by torture had such an event really happened. ", Aelian, Historical Miscellany 12. Wilson) (Greek rhetorician C2nd to 3rd A.D.) : Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 7 (trans. Again, there is no connection with Nero or with the Fire. The reason for Nero attacking the Christians (including the deaths of Peter and Paul), according to Lactantius, was the same as we read of in Plinys correspondence: the pagan cults were being abandoned because of the success of Christian preaching. In fact, the Gospel of John is likely written around the same time as this document. Doris Lessing, I like the probability of the impossible." He made a secret plan to get rid of Aegyptus and his sons for good. A complete bibliography of the translations quoted on this page. 2:6-7). Guided by the gods and not intending to cause a war between them, he decided to give his kingdom to his brother and leave the country in search for another life. I think, though, that Clement is simply saying that battle for holiness and a pure church is a battle every church must continue in. 1 Clem. Enter the email address you signed up with and we'll email you a reset link. When the sons found out who their mother was, they put Dirce to death by bidning her to an untamed bull; by the kindness of Liber [Dionysos], whose votary she was, on Mount Cithaeron, a spring was formed from her body, which was called Dirce. You cannot have grace without repentance and faith. Covered with the hides of wild animals they perished by being torn to pieces by dogs or, fixed to stakes (or, crosses) they were set afire in the darkening evening as a form of night lighting. to express appreciation for your detailed interaction with what Ive written!". How, then, Shaw asks, was this new information about the Christians circulating among the governing officials at the time? Grace and repentance go hand in hand. . The first part of the article explores the context in which these designations appear. Online version at the Perseus Digital Library. "I still wonder at all the material you turn out for Vridar. All his daughters had to obey their father, because disobeying to your parents was a great wrongdoing in the ancient world. ", "Here I give an admittedly subjective short list, in random order, of useful, high level and regularly updated weblogs on the study of the Old Testament . By grace we can have the power of repentance and overcome sin. Signup* for a weekly dose of spiritual inspiration from Dr. Italy and receive as a special bonus a download that will make this Lenten season your most meaningful yet, and guide you to a new and deeper intimacy with Christ. | About Us Tom Berenger, It seems to me that being psycho-analysed is essentially a process where one is forced back into infantilism and then rescued from it by crystallising what one learns into a sort of intellectual primitivism-one is forced back into myth, and folk lore and everything that belongs to the savage or undeveloped stages of society. Similar terminology is used in the New Testament. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. What seems to make the idea so compelling and impossible to dismiss is that it is based on a high quality historical source of apparently unimpeachable fidelity, the Annales of the historian Tacitus. "[The rivers and springs flee before the pregnant goddess Leto, fearing the wrath of Hera should they provide her refuge :] Fled, too, Aonia [Boiotia] on the same course, and [the Naiades] Dirke (Dirce) and Strophia, holding the hands of their sire, dark-pebbled Ismenos (Ismenus). At the same time a Nero myth was maturingamong the lower classes. She, suspecting that her husband had secretly lain with Antiopa, ordered her servants to keep her bound in darkness. unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body. | Contact Us Response to Christopher Jones: The Historicity of the Neronian Persecution. A technical comment regarding Clements Letter to the Corinthians: As far as I remember (also from Earl Dohertys texts), the expressions put to death (in most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death) and suffered martyrdom under the prefects do not correspond to the Greek text (which gives no indication of violent deaths). Rather, the punishments Suetonius speaks of may well have been one of the occasional banishments from Rome that Jews experienced. ", "Thanks much for this book review. The phrase a type of men of a new and evil superstitio, in Shaws assessment, reads very much like Suetoniuss own commentary drawing upon what was known of Christians in his day, in the early second century. In the most common version of the myth, all but one of them killed their husbands on their wedding night, and are condemned to spend eternity carrying water in a sieve or perforated device. Looking forward to more segments. Le chtiment des Danades is an essay by the French-Canadian author Henri Paul Jacquesthe applying the Freudian concept of psychoanalysis to the study of the punishment imposed on the Danades after they committed their crimes. The prospect of a Christian interpolation in Tacitus, The Ambiguity of the Serpent: Greek versus Biblical, The Biblical Cain and his Greek Counterparts, Garden of Eden : Mesopotamian Perspectives, http://dspace.nwu.ac.za/handle/10394/14213, Rome Burning and the Christians: A New Study Vridar, https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=145080#p145080, Book of Revelation Annotated List of Posts, Daniel Gullottas Review of Richard Carriers, Death and Resurrection of the Beloved Son (Levenson), Ending of the Gospel of Mark (16:8) ANNOTATED INDEX, Genre of Gospels, Acts and OT Primary History: INDEX, Historical Methods (with reference to the study of Christian Origins/Historicity of Jesus), Jesus: a Saviour Just Like the Kings and Gods of Egypt and Babylon, Inside the Pentecostal Christians Mind #1, The Garden of Eden [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus-Critias 7a], The Second Creation Story in Genesis [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 6], Sovereign Citizens, ISIS and Moonies the common thread that binds them all, When God Created Humans, then Retired: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5c], The Late Origins of Judaism The Archaeological Evidence, In Six Days: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5b], In the Beginning: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5a], Genesis 1 as Philosophy [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 4], Why Genesis 1-3 is Different from Other Myths [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 3b], Genesis = Science + Myth + Theology [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 3a], Genesis 1 Amazing Unique [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 2], Charbonnel: Jesus Christ sublime figure de papier, Shawaccepts that Tacitus was a relatively reliable historian not given to outright invention. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Nero had somehow come to be connected with the Christians; Christians were linked to thosewho were punished after the Great Fire. The key reference here isBarnes, T. D. 2010: Early Christian Hagiography and Roman History, Tubingen. Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. - Letter to the Corinthians, ch. He wrote of one of several episodes of people in the East gaining following by falsely claiming to be Nero returning to re-claim theempire. Presuming this much to be true, one might then further speculate about what was happening to the women concerned. It might help to read my story of discovering the true purpose of the atonement at https://www.rebuildingthefoundations.org/faith-and-works-story.html in the Scriptures and the early fathers. Do not hesitate to ask the community! (There have been dubious attempts to force some of these writers into supposedly alluding to such an event.). Tacitussincerely thought he had, in the late 110s and early 120s, evidence that a new sect known as Christians had been accused of being responsible for starting the fire, and that they were punished by Nero in order to deflect suspicions directed at himself. Abstract of a recently published article by Princeton University Professor of Classics, Brent D. Shaw: Brent D. Shaw (2015). Ancient history is obviously less verifiable than recent history, and open to speculative revisions of various sorts, including the use of some presumed legends and forgeries against others, according to taste. In general, you are always free to use a paragraph or two from anyone's work with attribution. pp. There now began a more destructive and savage fire than Rome had ever experienced At the time a rumour had been running about that while the city was burning Nero had mounted his household stage and, in likening the present evils to disasters experienced in distant antiquity, he had sung about the destruction of Troy Of Romes fourteen districts only four remained untouched. We will focus on repentance and grace in chapters 7 and 8. One of the plainest examples is the Acts of Peter (probably from the 180s) which tells of Neros persecution of Peter in Rome, but states that he was forced to keep his hands off Peters Christian followers due to a threatening vision from heaven. Lykos marched against Sikyon, subdued it, slew Epopeus, and led Antiope away captive. It would take a separate article to cover the evidence for this word not being generally known among the elites of the likes of Tacitus, Juvenal, Pliny and Suetonius until the early second century. By informal exchanges, in the course of their many known personal communications. He offers the suggestion that Chrestus might be one of the freedmen advisers to the emperor Claudius, using as analogy the anti-semitic Helicon, counselor to Gaius Caligula. 6:2 By reason of jealousy women being persecuted, after that they had suffered cruel and unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body. Five Reasons Why Mythicism is Disappointing, Where Morality Comes From a Rawlsian view, As for Near Death Experiences, I ask myself what is more likely: that a person really did in some sense, There are tonnes of things in the ot that draw from ancient near East beliefs, further Myth made fact a, Dear Austendw, Darshans essay is fascinating, and shows in my opinion how much Leviticus sacrificial and purity laws are at, Hi Neil As you may remember, I have not in the past been a fan of Russell Gmirkins theory that, I wish there was an edit button: These bittersweet messages seem, to me, to be more of a sigh of, The problem of course is that the serpents advice is perfectly reasonable and indeed wise.

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